(no subject)
Sep. 26th, 2003 10:45 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ambitious_wenchIs there a way to tell what client one uses to post entries to Live Journal? I mean, besides that bit in your Info page? I'm using Semagic to post this entry, just as I posted my previous one.
Why should this matter, you ask?
Because I prefer it over Phoenix for Mac OS X. Oh, I freely admit that familiarity plays a big part in it. I think that is the single biggest factor in why so many folks don't make the transition from one platform to the other easily.
Some background:
I have been an online computer user since 1997. I got a late start in life, I was well into my 30's at that point. And yes, it was a PC. Windows 95, as a matter of fact. I can remember the big bru-ha over win 95, and was bewildered by it.
Get this--I used AOL 2.0. on a machine with 16 megs of Ram, and a 9600 baud modem. I think it had a 850 meg hard drive. It was a Packard-Bell machine, with a tiny color monitor. AOL had just gone over to the unlimited flat rate pricing plan.
AOL was a good place to start, and to this day, I really don't have a problem with it--as a jumping-off point. I've met incredible minds there, made friends that last to this day. Not all of us have the inclination to learn more about the online community.
I graduated from AOL and made my way to Usenet due to an unpleasant AOLuser, and made the effort to learn about security and hacking with the intent of revenge. I never did get the revenge I wanted, but by then I'd gotten over this bozo's antics and was deeply entrenched in the world of IRC, Usenet, and web page building.
I made friends on alt.2600 before it was a haven for spam and idiotic flame wars. I remember alt.devilbunnies when there were too many story posts in a day to read them all. alt.binaries.pictures.gardens was about flowers, not genitalia.
I became aware of just how evil Microsoft is, how unethical its business practices were, and how it was forcing the hand of the computing community. And so I made the switch to Linux, briefly.
I researched software, learned how to use tar and rar, and how to mount a hard drive. (watch it, guys!) I mourned that Forte Agent wasn't available for *nix, and then found Pan, and delighted in learning how to use this up and coming beta program. But I could no longer attach files for posting to Usenet groups. I forgave them, they were learning, they were doing this from love.
I would switch OS's to post my pictures of my gardens using Forte Agent, but would read using Pan. I used BitchX for what IRC I did. Never did find the equivolent of Quicken for Linux...I used Gimp for editing image files. That was pretty good, but again, the familiarity of photoshop was missing.
But the kicker was this: No matter what I tried, no matter what I used, my resume would not open in MS Word if I had altered it in any way on my Linux machine.
I went back to Win 95.
I resented it. I LOVED Linux. I felt like I was held hostage.
Now I'm using a Mac--OS X to be exact. Understand something--I am not a Mac head. Nor am I a Microsoft fan. Or, for that matter, am I a fan of Linux in its many incarnations. They all have their drawbacks. Linux is NOT user-friendly. Or, at least it wasn't when I was trying to install it with a dual boot system, using LILO. The desktop environment was foreign, but usable. MS is the Evile Empire as far as I am concerned. Mac? I think my biggest complaint about Macs is the utterly blind devotion it receives from its hardcore users.
I don't think Jazz falls into this group. I do wonder if his preference for Mac isn't more about not using a PC than about using a Mac. Not really an issue, I suppose. What it boils down to is that he prefers Mac to PC, and can wax rhapsodic about its many fine features.
I'm still baffled by it.
Take for example the fact that after 9 versions of the Mac OS, Jobs ditched it all in favor of a Unix based OS. I'm not sure why he did that--what was wrong with the previous stuff? Was it because it couldn't support some of the technological advances that are coming up, such as 64 bit processing in the upcoming G5?
I don't know. I'm not a dyed-in-the-wool geek. I have no clue how to program--hell, I start sweating when asked to count to 10 in binary. I am a GUI-girl, utterly CLI-less. Shell account? I'm baffled. I like to think of myself as an articulate and educated and experienced end-user.
I have no experience with Macs prior to OS X. Please don't tell me that it was better back in the old days. I can get that non-sense from PC users.
I'm still not comfy with Mac, after how many months of using the machine DAILY. Little things irritate me. Missing features. Take for example this side-by-each comparaison of Semagic and Phoenix.
Semagic has a user interface that is much more utilitarian than pretty. Besides the standard menu bar of "LiveJournal File Edit View Web Help, it has a row of icons below that. Open, Save, Close, Options, Friends, Groups, History, Edit Last Entry, Spell check. Gold, Italics, Underscore, Strikethrough. Increase (and decrease Font). The list goes on.
But here's the really cool part: If I mouse over them, out of 29 of them, there are only 4 of them that do not have the key commands that will do the same thing for me rather than take my hands form the keyboard. They list them on the mouse-over pop-ups. I can learn key commands by using the icons.
I like that. Phoenix? No icons. Nope. None at all. I have to go looking for the same functions in the various dropdowns on the menu bar. And because Phoenix is beta for OS X, its has many that are grayed out, put in place to activate at a future date, I imagine. I am begining to wonder if I should have waited to get OS 11.
Further, there are LOTS of options in Semagic that ae utterly missing from Phoenix Carbon. Like being able to substitute a real name for an LJ user's name in an LJ user link.
Yes, Yes, I know. Phoenix isn't a Mac program--not written by Apple software writers. But it is *the best* available for us Mac LJers. Oh, and it won't let me change my custom access levels without changing them in the preferences, and then relaunching the software.
ARRRRRGH!
Little things. Like being able to arrange my icons automatically, so that they line up in neat rows and columns on my desktop.
Like the fact that while I can use X-11 to run Pan again, I *still* can't attach a file to upload to Usenet.
Like the fact that the mail program doesn't really arrainge by threads, just highlights them all the same color.
Like the fact that I can't find a really good Usenet Client like Forte Agent for Mac, that I have to resort to using stuff written for the *nix environment.
Like the fact that I *still* have to use MS products to create good looking resumes. But at least I can go cross platform with it if I do.
But here's the part that made me almost give up on Macs totaly today:
The Oxford English Dictionary (Second Edition) Version 3.0 is for PC only.
ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!
Why should this matter, you ask?
Because I prefer it over Phoenix for Mac OS X. Oh, I freely admit that familiarity plays a big part in it. I think that is the single biggest factor in why so many folks don't make the transition from one platform to the other easily.
Some background:
I have been an online computer user since 1997. I got a late start in life, I was well into my 30's at that point. And yes, it was a PC. Windows 95, as a matter of fact. I can remember the big bru-ha over win 95, and was bewildered by it.
Get this--I used AOL 2.0. on a machine with 16 megs of Ram, and a 9600 baud modem. I think it had a 850 meg hard drive. It was a Packard-Bell machine, with a tiny color monitor. AOL had just gone over to the unlimited flat rate pricing plan.
AOL was a good place to start, and to this day, I really don't have a problem with it--as a jumping-off point. I've met incredible minds there, made friends that last to this day. Not all of us have the inclination to learn more about the online community.
I graduated from AOL and made my way to Usenet due to an unpleasant AOLuser, and made the effort to learn about security and hacking with the intent of revenge. I never did get the revenge I wanted, but by then I'd gotten over this bozo's antics and was deeply entrenched in the world of IRC, Usenet, and web page building.
I made friends on alt.2600 before it was a haven for spam and idiotic flame wars. I remember alt.devilbunnies when there were too many story posts in a day to read them all. alt.binaries.pictures.gardens was about flowers, not genitalia.
I became aware of just how evil Microsoft is, how unethical its business practices were, and how it was forcing the hand of the computing community. And so I made the switch to Linux, briefly.
I researched software, learned how to use tar and rar, and how to mount a hard drive. (watch it, guys!) I mourned that Forte Agent wasn't available for *nix, and then found Pan, and delighted in learning how to use this up and coming beta program. But I could no longer attach files for posting to Usenet groups. I forgave them, they were learning, they were doing this from love.
I would switch OS's to post my pictures of my gardens using Forte Agent, but would read using Pan. I used BitchX for what IRC I did. Never did find the equivolent of Quicken for Linux...I used Gimp for editing image files. That was pretty good, but again, the familiarity of photoshop was missing.
But the kicker was this: No matter what I tried, no matter what I used, my resume would not open in MS Word if I had altered it in any way on my Linux machine.
I went back to Win 95.
I resented it. I LOVED Linux. I felt like I was held hostage.
Now I'm using a Mac--OS X to be exact. Understand something--I am not a Mac head. Nor am I a Microsoft fan. Or, for that matter, am I a fan of Linux in its many incarnations. They all have their drawbacks. Linux is NOT user-friendly. Or, at least it wasn't when I was trying to install it with a dual boot system, using LILO. The desktop environment was foreign, but usable. MS is the Evile Empire as far as I am concerned. Mac? I think my biggest complaint about Macs is the utterly blind devotion it receives from its hardcore users.
I don't think Jazz falls into this group. I do wonder if his preference for Mac isn't more about not using a PC than about using a Mac. Not really an issue, I suppose. What it boils down to is that he prefers Mac to PC, and can wax rhapsodic about its many fine features.
I'm still baffled by it.
Take for example the fact that after 9 versions of the Mac OS, Jobs ditched it all in favor of a Unix based OS. I'm not sure why he did that--what was wrong with the previous stuff? Was it because it couldn't support some of the technological advances that are coming up, such as 64 bit processing in the upcoming G5?
I don't know. I'm not a dyed-in-the-wool geek. I have no clue how to program--hell, I start sweating when asked to count to 10 in binary. I am a GUI-girl, utterly CLI-less. Shell account? I'm baffled. I like to think of myself as an articulate and educated and experienced end-user.
I have no experience with Macs prior to OS X. Please don't tell me that it was better back in the old days. I can get that non-sense from PC users.
I'm still not comfy with Mac, after how many months of using the machine DAILY. Little things irritate me. Missing features. Take for example this side-by-each comparaison of Semagic and Phoenix.
Semagic has a user interface that is much more utilitarian than pretty. Besides the standard menu bar of "LiveJournal File Edit View Web Help, it has a row of icons below that. Open, Save, Close, Options, Friends, Groups, History, Edit Last Entry, Spell check. Gold, Italics, Underscore, Strikethrough. Increase (and decrease Font). The list goes on.
But here's the really cool part: If I mouse over them, out of 29 of them, there are only 4 of them that do not have the key commands that will do the same thing for me rather than take my hands form the keyboard. They list them on the mouse-over pop-ups. I can learn key commands by using the icons.
I like that. Phoenix? No icons. Nope. None at all. I have to go looking for the same functions in the various dropdowns on the menu bar. And because Phoenix is beta for OS X, its has many that are grayed out, put in place to activate at a future date, I imagine. I am begining to wonder if I should have waited to get OS 11.
Further, there are LOTS of options in Semagic that ae utterly missing from Phoenix Carbon. Like being able to substitute a real name for an LJ user's name in an LJ user link.
Yes, Yes, I know. Phoenix isn't a Mac program--not written by Apple software writers. But it is *the best* available for us Mac LJers. Oh, and it won't let me change my custom access levels without changing them in the preferences, and then relaunching the software.
ARRRRRGH!
Little things. Like being able to arrange my icons automatically, so that they line up in neat rows and columns on my desktop.
Like the fact that while I can use X-11 to run Pan again, I *still* can't attach a file to upload to Usenet.
Like the fact that the mail program doesn't really arrainge by threads, just highlights them all the same color.
Like the fact that I can't find a really good Usenet Client like Forte Agent for Mac, that I have to resort to using stuff written for the *nix environment.
Like the fact that I *still* have to use MS products to create good looking resumes. But at least I can go cross platform with it if I do.
But here's the part that made me almost give up on Macs totaly today:
The Oxford English Dictionary (Second Edition) Version 3.0 is for PC only.
ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-09-26 10:07 am (UTC)First off, XJournal surpassed Phoenix quite some time ago, and has key commands for most things. Customise the toolbar if you really want buttons for things, though.
Mail v 3 will thread your mail, Expose rocks, you'll probably like the new Finder way more than I do, and 10.3 is around the corner. We buy unlimited copies at my office.
Go to View > View Options, like I showed you, and click the "Keep Arranged By" button, and select what you want it to be arranged by.
You don't have to use MS products to create good looking resumes. I mean... ew. You do have to use Adobe products, though. :)
Agreed about Usenet clients, although I sprayed my coffee on the monitor when you called Agent "good". Fact is, Usenet isn't sexy, and OS X is a new OS, and it's attracting people who like to work on sexy projects. We can hope that
Anyhow, I've been burning those CDs we discussed, and next time you come over, I can probably help you with things you don't like. I never promised you it would be for you, but I'm beginning to feel like a therapist.
no subject
Date: 2003-09-26 12:18 pm (UTC)http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/mail.html
I'm afraid I'm not going to sympathise much with you about "the [x] feature is in the wrong place!" Just learn where it is! Geezus, woman, I switch between four different computers with different operating systems. If I can learn to deal with Semagic and Mozilla Thunderbird, you can learn to deal with XJournal.
Worse, if I can learn that I can't slam my mouse up to the top of the screen and be right at my menus, but have to hunt for them... you get the picture. (Thank you, Apple, for suing MS over the menubar, you bunch of fucking bastards.)
Besides, it's nice to be able to tab from Subject to Music to Mood to my journal.
Now, as far as features are concerned:
I'm not certain what you mean about not being able to configure groups from the main toolbar. The pane on the side has where you can select your groups. To edit your groups, you open the Friends window, and they're right there. Easily editable. Command-2, by the way.
Preview? You're not looking through the menu. Bad user! It's the first option under HTML. Command-Shift-E. Don't close it, hang it out next to your edit screen, and you see a constantly-updated preview as you type. It's a "floater," too, which means it disappears when you switch apps or dock the window. And the preview is using Safari's WebKit: that little preview is using your webbrowser's rendering engine.
What else does XJournal have that I've liked.. oh. Right. There's only three or four commands without keystroke equivalents.
How can I not like Agent? Good god! What a mess! I'm not even going to go into it, but I'd rather use TIN in a shell window.
And 10.3 does allow key command remappings, but only for menu commands, it appears. So, for example, you'd be able to fix Phoenix to the way you like it.
But you can't (easily) change "end," because it's a hard-key binding. Just learn to use command-rightarrow, or the downarrow if you're on the last line.
Or, there are utilities that can remap the keyboard for you exactly how you like it, but they cost money.
Or, there are ways to go in and edit your keymap tables.
Your pick. Personally, I think that if I can adapt, after sixteen years, to use "end" on a PC, you can learn the arrow commands... or pay an exorbitant fee for iKey. I think they're jackal bastards for charging so much for it, personally.
no subject
Date: 2003-09-26 01:10 pm (UTC)Jazz, you've never been pregnant. There is a certain amount of longing for the inevitable, and bemoaning the current state of things that any woman as a sacred right to. Yes, I know 10.3 will have it. But we don't have 10.3 on our machines yet!
No sympathy needed, really-- I used to be baffled by older folks crying over how things are difficult to learn. I truly didn't understand. Now I do--making a transition from one OS to the other is not an easy thing, and is even tougher when the old mental joints start to stiffen up on you. Especially when they aren't too limber in the first place.
Remember, I talking about personal taste. I am not makeing a slam at Mac, or PC's for that matter. I'm voicing my own frustrations at my ignorance and confusion.
Now, remember, you were the one to tell me to use the menu bar--but I'm telling you that Phoenix doesn't *have* a preview option. I've looked. And I've been using the menu feature in other programs. I am sure that I would have eventually found the option in XJournal. Remember, I just reloaded it on my machine just a couple of hours ago.
Again, as for being able to "slam your mouse to the top of your screen to find the menu bar", as a touchpad user, I never will have that problem.
Are there keystrokes to make the menus drop down without using any periferal device? I miss that feature.
I never thought I would miss keystrokes so much.
Oh, and how does one edit keypmap tables? Can you point me to a good tutorial? Googleing now.
Yes, I can learn to use the arrow+command to move through a field. And I have.
Now, how about contacting the good folk at Oxford Publishing about their idiotic and short-sightedness in not providing us with the OED on CD-ROM for Mac?
And If I ever get a copy, I will be sure to burn you a copy.
Edie
Allow me some bitching latitude. I've got a head cold, and I'm not whining about not having a job.
no subject
Date: 2003-09-26 01:20 pm (UTC)I was talking about XJournal. I don't use Phoenix anymore because of the same complaints you have.
And I'm not certain what you're talking about with the touchpad. What, mousing to any point on the screen is equally shitty? You can't reach the edges of the screen faster than any other point on the screen? I can, and I'm using a trackpad and a trackball.
As to the keystrokes, I know we went over Full Keyboard Access on IRC. System Preferences > Keyboard > Full Keyboard Access.
And with the keymap tables: forget it. Don't try. Really. Don't. Either pay for a utility or adapt. You can really fuck your computer by doing that, and I won't help you. I mentioned it as a joke.
As to the OED, meh. It's a pain, but I'll live, and I don't really want a copy. Not something I care much about... I figure if I'm ever arguing and have to end up saying "but the OXFORD says," then I've lost the argument. That goes for other people, too.
I use Virtual PC for any quirky apps like that, but I really don't think it's worth it.
no subject
Date: 2003-09-26 01:51 pm (UTC)Touchpad vs. mouse--I can't "slam" a touchpad anywhere. It takes a soft touch to operate it, and so positioning was never an issue for me. Once I got used to the position of the menu bar in relation to the surface of the touch pad, I no longer had to hunt. BTW, you might want to try a touchpad yourself--I find that trackballs and mouse movement irritate my tendonitus where the touchy doesn't.
Now about XJournal: You mentioned something about being ble to edit groups. Yes, you can--but only on the friends screen.
What I want to know is how to set it to post an entry to a specific secutiry level (custom group) from the entry page itself. Hell, come to that, how *do* I post to a specific group only? I have been fiddling with the menu bar options and have *yet* to figure out how to set the security level at all!
Now about Full Keyboard Access: Yes, we did go over it in IRC. However, that does NOT provide me with how to activate the menus themselves: 4x: I would like to know what series of keys to press to make the "file" menu drop down on Safari. On a PC, I'd press alt+F, and it would drop down, with the first item listed selected. I could navigate by using the down arrow, or by using the specific keycommands listed by each option.
On my Mac, I don't know what keys to press to make "File" drop down its menu so that I can read the options and their attending keystrokes to execute them. I have to use the touchpad to navigate, then click to activate. I know, I know, how hard is it to use a mouse/touchpad? Its a matter of efficiency, not difficulty.
OED and Virtual PC: It's stuff like that that will insure a place on the table next to my Mac for the PC. I do love the English language, and the OED is one of those rare treasures I'd love to own. Not to worry, I'm of the same mind you are that if you have to resort to it to win an argument, you've lost the argument.
Edie
no subject
Date: 2003-09-26 12:10 pm (UTC)This is not about which is better and which is worse, this is about being uncomfortable with the unfamiliar.
As I said, you aren't the sort to give slavish devotion to anything. Either am I, but I'm a little more to the side of "I'm a crotchety old bitch and I'm gonna bitch and be frustrated until I settle in."
I am curious, though--how can you not see Forte Agent as being good? I LOVED it, it rawked my Usenet world!
I am not keen on X journal. The dang thing is configured upside down to my mind--again, this is about what I was used to. I've reinstalled it and am going to give it another shot. I've found out how to configure the toolbar--what I would really like to do is be able to configure the user groups from the main toolbar without having to go into the friends page.
I think I prefered Phoenix because it resembled Semagic. It had the mood/music options at the bottom. I feel like I have to climb over them to post my entry if they are at the top.
Silly, I know, but there it is. It's stuff like this that you can't help with, even if I were paying you to be my Mac therapist.
Oh, and one thing more? Semagic has a preview option that neither Phoenix nor XJournal does. I miss that.
Now, regarding threading: One of the really cool things about Netscape mail is that it would sort a thread internally--using a cascade graphic so that each reply was indented from the source email. This means that on a mailing list when there was more than one reply to an email, ti would present them in chronological order after placing it in response to the previous one. 4X: Scott sends a letter to [Argument Shop] entitled "Eat my Eucharist, pagan!" Jenny and I both respond to it within minutes of each other.
On the presentation screen, it would look like this:
Scott [Argument Shop] Eat my Eucharist, pagan! Sep 25 03:50 am
_____Jenny Re:[Argument Shop] Eat my Eucharist, pagan! Sep 25 3:55 am
_____AWench Re:[Argument Shop] Eat my Eucharist, pagan! Sep 25 3:59 am
(underscores used for formating purposes. Imagine that they are indentation)
Now lets say that Scott decides to respond to Jenny's post but not mine. In Netscape Mail, (and in Forte Agent's client!) that second post of his would be put below Jenny's on the listing and indented accordingly. Let's take it a step further--if he changed the title, I would have the option of making it continue being presented in relation to the others in order of response, or I could make it show up as an entirely new thread! I'd have a visual record of how new threads had spawned off old ones.
Scott [Argument Shop] Eat my Eucharist, pagan! Sep 25 03:50 am
_____Jenny Re:[Argument Shop] Eat my Eucharist, pagan! Sep 25 3:55 am
----------Scott [Argument Shop]Don't get your panties in a twist, I was only joking! Sep 25 04:25 am
_____AWench Re:[Argument Shop] Eat my Eucharist, pagan! Sep 25 3:59 am
In Mail, it would simply be listed in chronological order right after mine, without any consideration that it was posted in respone to Jenny's letter. Or if it was renamed, it would not even be placed in line with any of the other ones of the same subject. That is the sort of trivial detail that Mac seems to be lacking. Little things.
No, I haven't given up on Macs yet, Jazz. I will say this: visually, it is stunning. Sexy. Hot. But there are times when I miss the utilitarianism of my PC.
Gimme time, pal. I'm just kvetching right now. And yes, I am truly looking forward to 10.3. Oh, gods, it's gonna be good to be able to do keystroke mappings!
And yes, Keycaps Rawks.
no subject
Date: 2003-09-27 10:48 am (UTC)I went back to Win 95.
I resented it. I LOVED Linux. I felt like I was held hostage.
Pssst. Open Office. Does Word documents. Very nice. There's a Windows version too.
-m