Treatment of Iraq War Vets:
Aug. 30th, 2004 07:21 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ambitious_wenchhttp://www.traveling-soldier.org/8.04.interview.php
This U.S.M.C. Sergeant participated in the invasion stage of the Iraq war.
Traveling Soldier's Thomas Barton spoke to him at his home.
Barton: Without giving a name or any identifying personal information, what was
your unit and specialty?
Sgt: I was with Romeo Battery Fifth Battalion 5th Marines. I was an
artilleryman.
B: And your rank?
S: I was a sergeant.
B: You had some difficulties when you came home, a health issue I believe?
S: Yes I did. Right now I've gone four days with no sleep; it's been that way
for about a year. Stomach problems started back during the middle of the war, a
lot of us got it. They started writing our names down on a piece of paper to
turn in and we don't know what it was for.
B: Was there a particular location in Iraq where this seemed to hit you?
H: One was in Tikrit and one was in one of the staging areas I believe just
outside of Baghdad.
B: Did you receive any medical attention while you were there for this problem?
S: They basically just told us to relax the best you can when it's burning up
out there, but you kind of just do what you can do.
B: When you came home, the public thinks that immediately everyone who's
discharged gets attention and all the care in the world from the Veterans
Administration. Have you had any care or attention since you've been back?
S: Still waiting. I've got ringing in the ears, and I'm just a lot of things so
I'm still waiting. There's a lot of us are still waiting. When I first came
back, since I was discharged not on active-duty anymore, I wasn't able to go in
there and see the VA until I received my discharge papers. I had not received
them and they told me there's nothing they could do for me until I received
them. It's a fierce fight to get anything done.
B: When did you return to the U.S.?
S: May 12, 2003.
B: And you haven't gotten your discharge papers yet?
S: Not yet.
B: This is June 21st 2004, so in effect you're stuck.
S: Basically.
B: You have a wife and a boy?
S: Yes I do.
B: How old is he?
S: He's two and a half.
B: Have you got to see much of him since you been in service?
S: No. We spent six months on deployment, came back for one month, and then
left for Iraq shortly after that. Came back, and then instead of using that
time to be with my family I spent it packing up, just trying to get through
everything. I had to stay at a hotel while they tried to fix some of my
paperwork. And that came out of our pocket.
B: You got no reimbursement for that?
S: No I never received anything.
B: So when the government portrays how well the troops are being taken care of
during and after their service, how does that hit you?
S: It makes you wonder who they're talking about -- I haven't seen it. My
friends have come back with -- it's called Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder I
believe -- and they won't talk to each other.
These guys were best friends, they weren't guys that you just knew, they were
best friends, closer than brothers. And I talked to one about a year ago and he
threatened suicide. Never heard from him.
Another one he's still living with his mom and dad and two children -- he just
can't seem to get on his feet. With two kids, a wife, and trying to make it on
what he's making and what his wife's making -- they keep trying to find out
ways to make money.
The last time I heard from them was about 6 months ago, I don't think they
changed much. He still won't talk to her real good -- three days without
talking to her, he won't talk to me, he won't talk to C---. C--- hasn't heard
first. We just don't hear from each other.
B: Are they getting any type of help or attention whatsoever?
S: No. When we came back I hear the Army is giving a lot of guys treatment and
looking at them, getting them therapists and people like that to talk to.
We came back, it was basically 'hey you guys got 10 days.'
It's affecting a lot of us. I've seen great Marines go through all kinds of
problems being discharged. One that he's an excellent Marine, came back, and
because of what happened to him I guess it really messed him up a little bit.
He kind of went the wrong route without saying too much about what he did.
He ended up being discharged instead of somebody really talking to him,
wondering what's going on, what caused it. Our first sergeant, from what I
heard, stuck up for him the best he could but there's only so much he can do.
B: So it's kind of like welcome home, get the hell out of here?
S: Yeah. Definitely what it was, definitely. Now I've found a job, and it pays
pretty well but now I'm still waiting trying to figure out over a year later
how he is. I don't see a whole lot of light at the end of the tunnel sometimes.
B: In your opinion, do you have any view as to what the war was really about?
S: I hate to say it -- I've always believed in the American government, I've
had a lot of family serve in the military, Vietnam veterans, Korean war.
I hate to say it but sometimes I wonder if it's not for oil. If you take a look
at some major things, the taking of Basra, the major port city, the Ramallah
oil fields, the oil refinery stations where they'd have us set up and we'd stay
there and clear those out great, but instead of staying and taking care of a
town and clearing a town, just move on up to the next oil refinery station --
there's nobody there -- instead of taking care of a town, and we're bypassing
all these problems that we know and we're sticking guys in there to walk around
and telling them "don't shoot unless you're shot at" and look what's happened.
B: Here's a quote from a marine officer at Fallujah. He's talking about the
Iraqis fighting, and he said 'I don't begrudge them. We'd do same thing if some
foreign dudes rolled into San Diego and set up shop.' What's your take on that?
S: He's exactly right, he's exactly right. If somebody came over here and
started things up that are going on over there, every Redneck, everybody from
every walk of life'd be out there as quick as they could with a shotgun
standing side-by-side.
B: Let's talk about the military strategy situation. There's 22 million Iraqis,
and polls say about 65-70% of them support the resistance in the sense that
they think it's time the U.S. left.
You have 130,000 American troops there, and if every single one was a combat
troop and worked 7 days a week 12 hours a day that means you have 65,000 combat
troops, assuming none were support, at any given minute.
How do you think the generals believe you're going to hold down 22 million
people with 65,000 troops on duty at any given minute?
S: My view on that is I'd like to see those generals who were saying "well we
don't need all these men to be there" when the looting was going on.
While we're out there, we're watching these things go on, we're finding AK-47s
in the back of trucks, some of these looters they go in there and kill these
people, and take their air-conditioning units and load them up in a back of a
truck.
Here we are, a squad of Marines, trying to control a little part of a city.
It's impossible, I'd like to see them come down there and show us how it's
supposed to be done because apparently they know what's going on.
B: In Baghdad, there's 3 million Shias, and they were the ones who really hated
Saddam Hussein. Now they've all risen up and declared their part of the city a
'liberated zone.' How many troops would it take to hold down 3 million people
who are pissed off and armed?
S: It'd be so much more than what we have there now, I'm telling you. Not only
the work of where you're out there everyday, and the fear when you have a round
snap past your head -- it makes you think.
The fear of being out there every day, the stress of being out there every day,
the stress of everyone's eyes on you -- and your just some young Lance
Corporal, young PFC, or some new Sergeant out there trying to do a job. It's
not fun.
It's not fun to walk around there telling people. Because some of the things
we had to do for our own protection, like clearing houses, and you see a young
child crying on his mom's lap.
The main thing it affects now is what does she think of me now? I looked in
their eyes and I told 'em 'peace' in Arabic but what was she thinking when I
told her 'peace' and I'm standing there with an M-16 trying to clear her house.
I'm not saying'. You just do the best you can.
B: Some of the soldiers in Vietnam who turned into some of the strongest
opponents of that war, I mean fierce opponents of that war, were people who
found themselves in combat situations, where they shot women or kids or
whatever, and they turned against it.
Their argument and my argument in those days was: the responsibility is on the
people who put them in that situation. What do you think of that?
S: I agree 100%. You're just out there doing a job. You're just out there doing
a job ' what are you going to do? Tell them no, I'm not going to do it? You can
say it, but there's so many things that go along with denying something.
I've seen guys cut their fingers off ' their trigger fingers ' so they wouldn't
have to go into certain areas. You just do your job the best you can and don't
bring home what happened there ' just try to bury it, try to make peace with
it.
B: On that, there's two schools of thought. Some people say you're supposed to
stand up and say 'Colonel, this is an unjust war and I refuse to follow your
orders.' Now in Vietnam, soldiers organized very quietly under the surface
against the war. Which way do you think makes most sense?
S: Being quiet, handling it amongst yourselves. But don't go the point where
you're out there killing officers, it's just gonna make it worse. You guys have
to stick up for each other those are the only people who care for you.
There's people sitting up there, telling us we can't have cots out there. And
yet we go into one of the rear-echelon bases where the generals are staying at,
where our leadership is staying at, and they have cots, bunks,
air-conditionings, and here we are sleeping in a tent filled with sand that's
blowing over in the afternoon sandstorms.
There's one hot meal a day. I'm sleeping on a plywood floor in a sleeping bag
that's burning up hot or it's too cold and it's not working right. It's just
amazing to me.
And then they keep telling us that they're going to get the air-conditionings
on in the tents after we came back in, after all this is over. After we come
back in, they kept telling us, 'It'll all be on, it'll all be on.' Well, we
were there for almost a month and nothing happened. They never came on.
We got to an Army base at Baghdad, where the leadership was at again, and they
stick us in holding tents. They're so cold, we had to go outside.
B: Again and again, carefully, sergeants have been the ones who have come
forward to say this war is bullshit, it's for oil, it's nothing but a racket,
we shouldn't be here, these people don't want us herewe need to get out of
there.
Again and again, it's the sergeants saying this. In Vietnam, the sergeants were
these old-timers who've been in for 50 years and the soldiers hated them. Now,
you're a sergeant, now it's sergeants saying this war is bad, it's wrong.. Why
do you think it's the sergeants taking a lead on this?
S: The way I see it, it's an NCO is this bridge between the younger men and the
higher enlisted guys up there. We're the ones who will always answer for
everything and we're put in the responsibility to lead.
But it makes it hard when you're questioned. I know it sounds wrong, being a
military man, but you sit there and you're like, 'this is stupid.' I remember
one night when we heard that we were moving into an area, and then we also
heard there was a tank company there, an Iraqi tank company there.
We're not equipped and they keep telling us, 'be ready for direct fire, be
ready for direct fire.' What kind of sense does that make to send us in?
I think it's always the sergeant's job to look at both sides and see which is
right and which is wrong, and try to find a way to fix what's wrong and try to
lead Marines towards what's right. Marine or Army, he's gotta be a bridge
between the younger and the older and stand up for what you feel is right.
B: There used to be some senior officers that were more concerned with getting
battle field 'experience' as they called it, so they could move up the chain of
command, even if it meant putting their troops at risk. Was there any of that
going on over there?
S: I heard of some officers from rear-echelon units who were being put up in
helicopters to fly above the fights because then they were in a combat zone, so
they could receive their medals for it.
Whether or not that's true I've heard it from too many units back here who
heard the same thing for it not to be true. It might just be a rumor but
everyone I've talked to has heard the same thing. I don't' know any names.
I've just heard some things from rear-echelons units who were sending them
above the fights so that way they were in the area.
B: Some people who served there have come back and used a word. These were
people who joined the armed services because they believed it was a decent and
honorable thing to do, and they are coming back saying this war isn't about
democracy or freedom.
They use the word 'betrayed.' That word seems to have a special meaning to
people who've been in service? How do you feel about that?
S: I definitely understand it. Believe me, everyday I sit back and think ' I
sit back and definitely think ' I think it's true.
B: Anything else you want to wrap with?
S: If this makes it over there to any of you guys over there, just hang in
there just do what you gotta do. Your families are taken care of, don't worry
about it, just keep your mind on what you've got to do and hang in there.
Believe me, if you ever need anything there's organizations out there when you
come back. Don't be afraid to ask, don't let it wear on you.
Come back home, do what you've gotta do, and hang in there while you're there.
Take care of yourself.
This U.S.M.C. Sergeant participated in the invasion stage of the Iraq war.
Traveling Soldier's Thomas Barton spoke to him at his home.
Barton: Without giving a name or any identifying personal information, what was
your unit and specialty?
Sgt: I was with Romeo Battery Fifth Battalion 5th Marines. I was an
artilleryman.
B: And your rank?
S: I was a sergeant.
B: You had some difficulties when you came home, a health issue I believe?
S: Yes I did. Right now I've gone four days with no sleep; it's been that way
for about a year. Stomach problems started back during the middle of the war, a
lot of us got it. They started writing our names down on a piece of paper to
turn in and we don't know what it was for.
B: Was there a particular location in Iraq where this seemed to hit you?
H: One was in Tikrit and one was in one of the staging areas I believe just
outside of Baghdad.
B: Did you receive any medical attention while you were there for this problem?
S: They basically just told us to relax the best you can when it's burning up
out there, but you kind of just do what you can do.
B: When you came home, the public thinks that immediately everyone who's
discharged gets attention and all the care in the world from the Veterans
Administration. Have you had any care or attention since you've been back?
S: Still waiting. I've got ringing in the ears, and I'm just a lot of things so
I'm still waiting. There's a lot of us are still waiting. When I first came
back, since I was discharged not on active-duty anymore, I wasn't able to go in
there and see the VA until I received my discharge papers. I had not received
them and they told me there's nothing they could do for me until I received
them. It's a fierce fight to get anything done.
B: When did you return to the U.S.?
S: May 12, 2003.
B: And you haven't gotten your discharge papers yet?
S: Not yet.
B: This is June 21st 2004, so in effect you're stuck.
S: Basically.
B: You have a wife and a boy?
S: Yes I do.
B: How old is he?
S: He's two and a half.
B: Have you got to see much of him since you been in service?
S: No. We spent six months on deployment, came back for one month, and then
left for Iraq shortly after that. Came back, and then instead of using that
time to be with my family I spent it packing up, just trying to get through
everything. I had to stay at a hotel while they tried to fix some of my
paperwork. And that came out of our pocket.
B: You got no reimbursement for that?
S: No I never received anything.
B: So when the government portrays how well the troops are being taken care of
during and after their service, how does that hit you?
S: It makes you wonder who they're talking about -- I haven't seen it. My
friends have come back with -- it's called Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder I
believe -- and they won't talk to each other.
These guys were best friends, they weren't guys that you just knew, they were
best friends, closer than brothers. And I talked to one about a year ago and he
threatened suicide. Never heard from him.
Another one he's still living with his mom and dad and two children -- he just
can't seem to get on his feet. With two kids, a wife, and trying to make it on
what he's making and what his wife's making -- they keep trying to find out
ways to make money.
The last time I heard from them was about 6 months ago, I don't think they
changed much. He still won't talk to her real good -- three days without
talking to her, he won't talk to me, he won't talk to C---. C--- hasn't heard
first. We just don't hear from each other.
B: Are they getting any type of help or attention whatsoever?
S: No. When we came back I hear the Army is giving a lot of guys treatment and
looking at them, getting them therapists and people like that to talk to.
We came back, it was basically 'hey you guys got 10 days.'
It's affecting a lot of us. I've seen great Marines go through all kinds of
problems being discharged. One that he's an excellent Marine, came back, and
because of what happened to him I guess it really messed him up a little bit.
He kind of went the wrong route without saying too much about what he did.
He ended up being discharged instead of somebody really talking to him,
wondering what's going on, what caused it. Our first sergeant, from what I
heard, stuck up for him the best he could but there's only so much he can do.
B: So it's kind of like welcome home, get the hell out of here?
S: Yeah. Definitely what it was, definitely. Now I've found a job, and it pays
pretty well but now I'm still waiting trying to figure out over a year later
how he is. I don't see a whole lot of light at the end of the tunnel sometimes.
B: In your opinion, do you have any view as to what the war was really about?
S: I hate to say it -- I've always believed in the American government, I've
had a lot of family serve in the military, Vietnam veterans, Korean war.
I hate to say it but sometimes I wonder if it's not for oil. If you take a look
at some major things, the taking of Basra, the major port city, the Ramallah
oil fields, the oil refinery stations where they'd have us set up and we'd stay
there and clear those out great, but instead of staying and taking care of a
town and clearing a town, just move on up to the next oil refinery station --
there's nobody there -- instead of taking care of a town, and we're bypassing
all these problems that we know and we're sticking guys in there to walk around
and telling them "don't shoot unless you're shot at" and look what's happened.
B: Here's a quote from a marine officer at Fallujah. He's talking about the
Iraqis fighting, and he said 'I don't begrudge them. We'd do same thing if some
foreign dudes rolled into San Diego and set up shop.' What's your take on that?
S: He's exactly right, he's exactly right. If somebody came over here and
started things up that are going on over there, every Redneck, everybody from
every walk of life'd be out there as quick as they could with a shotgun
standing side-by-side.
B: Let's talk about the military strategy situation. There's 22 million Iraqis,
and polls say about 65-70% of them support the resistance in the sense that
they think it's time the U.S. left.
You have 130,000 American troops there, and if every single one was a combat
troop and worked 7 days a week 12 hours a day that means you have 65,000 combat
troops, assuming none were support, at any given minute.
How do you think the generals believe you're going to hold down 22 million
people with 65,000 troops on duty at any given minute?
S: My view on that is I'd like to see those generals who were saying "well we
don't need all these men to be there" when the looting was going on.
While we're out there, we're watching these things go on, we're finding AK-47s
in the back of trucks, some of these looters they go in there and kill these
people, and take their air-conditioning units and load them up in a back of a
truck.
Here we are, a squad of Marines, trying to control a little part of a city.
It's impossible, I'd like to see them come down there and show us how it's
supposed to be done because apparently they know what's going on.
B: In Baghdad, there's 3 million Shias, and they were the ones who really hated
Saddam Hussein. Now they've all risen up and declared their part of the city a
'liberated zone.' How many troops would it take to hold down 3 million people
who are pissed off and armed?
S: It'd be so much more than what we have there now, I'm telling you. Not only
the work of where you're out there everyday, and the fear when you have a round
snap past your head -- it makes you think.
The fear of being out there every day, the stress of being out there every day,
the stress of everyone's eyes on you -- and your just some young Lance
Corporal, young PFC, or some new Sergeant out there trying to do a job. It's
not fun.
It's not fun to walk around there telling people. Because some of the things
we had to do for our own protection, like clearing houses, and you see a young
child crying on his mom's lap.
The main thing it affects now is what does she think of me now? I looked in
their eyes and I told 'em 'peace' in Arabic but what was she thinking when I
told her 'peace' and I'm standing there with an M-16 trying to clear her house.
I'm not saying'. You just do the best you can.
B: Some of the soldiers in Vietnam who turned into some of the strongest
opponents of that war, I mean fierce opponents of that war, were people who
found themselves in combat situations, where they shot women or kids or
whatever, and they turned against it.
Their argument and my argument in those days was: the responsibility is on the
people who put them in that situation. What do you think of that?
S: I agree 100%. You're just out there doing a job. You're just out there doing
a job ' what are you going to do? Tell them no, I'm not going to do it? You can
say it, but there's so many things that go along with denying something.
I've seen guys cut their fingers off ' their trigger fingers ' so they wouldn't
have to go into certain areas. You just do your job the best you can and don't
bring home what happened there ' just try to bury it, try to make peace with
it.
B: On that, there's two schools of thought. Some people say you're supposed to
stand up and say 'Colonel, this is an unjust war and I refuse to follow your
orders.' Now in Vietnam, soldiers organized very quietly under the surface
against the war. Which way do you think makes most sense?
S: Being quiet, handling it amongst yourselves. But don't go the point where
you're out there killing officers, it's just gonna make it worse. You guys have
to stick up for each other those are the only people who care for you.
There's people sitting up there, telling us we can't have cots out there. And
yet we go into one of the rear-echelon bases where the generals are staying at,
where our leadership is staying at, and they have cots, bunks,
air-conditionings, and here we are sleeping in a tent filled with sand that's
blowing over in the afternoon sandstorms.
There's one hot meal a day. I'm sleeping on a plywood floor in a sleeping bag
that's burning up hot or it's too cold and it's not working right. It's just
amazing to me.
And then they keep telling us that they're going to get the air-conditionings
on in the tents after we came back in, after all this is over. After we come
back in, they kept telling us, 'It'll all be on, it'll all be on.' Well, we
were there for almost a month and nothing happened. They never came on.
We got to an Army base at Baghdad, where the leadership was at again, and they
stick us in holding tents. They're so cold, we had to go outside.
B: Again and again, carefully, sergeants have been the ones who have come
forward to say this war is bullshit, it's for oil, it's nothing but a racket,
we shouldn't be here, these people don't want us herewe need to get out of
there.
Again and again, it's the sergeants saying this. In Vietnam, the sergeants were
these old-timers who've been in for 50 years and the soldiers hated them. Now,
you're a sergeant, now it's sergeants saying this war is bad, it's wrong.. Why
do you think it's the sergeants taking a lead on this?
S: The way I see it, it's an NCO is this bridge between the younger men and the
higher enlisted guys up there. We're the ones who will always answer for
everything and we're put in the responsibility to lead.
But it makes it hard when you're questioned. I know it sounds wrong, being a
military man, but you sit there and you're like, 'this is stupid.' I remember
one night when we heard that we were moving into an area, and then we also
heard there was a tank company there, an Iraqi tank company there.
We're not equipped and they keep telling us, 'be ready for direct fire, be
ready for direct fire.' What kind of sense does that make to send us in?
I think it's always the sergeant's job to look at both sides and see which is
right and which is wrong, and try to find a way to fix what's wrong and try to
lead Marines towards what's right. Marine or Army, he's gotta be a bridge
between the younger and the older and stand up for what you feel is right.
B: There used to be some senior officers that were more concerned with getting
battle field 'experience' as they called it, so they could move up the chain of
command, even if it meant putting their troops at risk. Was there any of that
going on over there?
S: I heard of some officers from rear-echelon units who were being put up in
helicopters to fly above the fights because then they were in a combat zone, so
they could receive their medals for it.
Whether or not that's true I've heard it from too many units back here who
heard the same thing for it not to be true. It might just be a rumor but
everyone I've talked to has heard the same thing. I don't' know any names.
I've just heard some things from rear-echelons units who were sending them
above the fights so that way they were in the area.
B: Some people who served there have come back and used a word. These were
people who joined the armed services because they believed it was a decent and
honorable thing to do, and they are coming back saying this war isn't about
democracy or freedom.
They use the word 'betrayed.' That word seems to have a special meaning to
people who've been in service? How do you feel about that?
S: I definitely understand it. Believe me, everyday I sit back and think ' I
sit back and definitely think ' I think it's true.
B: Anything else you want to wrap with?
S: If this makes it over there to any of you guys over there, just hang in
there just do what you gotta do. Your families are taken care of, don't worry
about it, just keep your mind on what you've got to do and hang in there.
Believe me, if you ever need anything there's organizations out there when you
come back. Don't be afraid to ask, don't let it wear on you.
Come back home, do what you've gotta do, and hang in there while you're there.
Take care of yourself.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-08-30 06:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-30 08:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-30 08:58 pm (UTC)E.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-30 10:23 pm (UTC)This public-service announcement brought to you by the letters L and J and the number 15.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-31 03:19 am (UTC)Yes, I can see that when I use the LJ cut button on my client. It pastes it in for me when I click it.
It was very early in the morning, I was on a strange computer, and I'd had too much to drink the night before.
Infer what you will.
E.
for this
Date: 2004-08-30 07:15 pm (UTC)Re: for this
Date: 2004-08-31 03:19 am (UTC)E.