On women's role in death and birth.
Aug. 17th, 2007 07:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ambitious_wenchI recently said in a response to a response to a response to a response that I wasn't sure if men were meant to witness death.
It was very ill stated, not well thought out at all.
First off, let me explain what I meant by witnessing death. Witnessing was entirely the wrong word. It implies passivity. Innocent bystander witnesses. Oddly, in Christianity, to witness means to share. I wonder if that was what I was subconsciously thinking of.
Witnessing still seems too passive.
I cannot say that I have witnessed the moment of death. In all cases, I was in the next room when life slipped away. Vera, my now ex-lover's mother (she was my active lover at the time) died shortly after I said good bye and left the room. My AIDS buddy died when I left the room out of fatigue and a need to get away. I had gone into the bathroom. My mother died seconds after I left the room to tell her doctor "no code".
As I said to ScaScot, my grandmother asked me to assist her death, long before it happened, long before she would need assistance. I wasn't able to. She died miles away from me, in a nursing home, with none of her family near her.
Women seem to be the ones to witness death as it happens, in our popular culture. nurses are mostly female, and they are often the ones to be there when someone dies.
The only exception seems to be male clergy, giving last rites (final unction, I think it's called now).
In Mists of Avalon, Viviane eases an old woman into death. In Carpe Jugulum, Granny Weatherwax helps deliver the child of a woman who'd been kicked by a cow, and talks to Death about who will die as a result.
Men have co-opted a traditional woman's role, that of midwife. Doctors, again mostly male, now are the preferred birth attendants. And if they are not, the medical profession is male dominated, and your female doctor probably has a male as her boss.
Men attend death; We think of Dr. Kevorkian, the angel of death, instead of the nurse who might possibly be the one who added just a bit too much morphine to the IV drip.
Again, we think of male clergy, providing absolution.
Yes, this post isn't very cohesive or well thought out. Mostly it's just to list some of my perceptions of how death and dieing are handled in our culture.
Do you want to die alone? I like to think that if my son were to die before me, I'd want to be there with him, because I was there when he was born. But I'm not sure I want him there when I die, I am not sure I want him to deal with the trauma. But it would be nice to have someone to see me off.
How about you?
It was very ill stated, not well thought out at all.
First off, let me explain what I meant by witnessing death. Witnessing was entirely the wrong word. It implies passivity. Innocent bystander witnesses. Oddly, in Christianity, to witness means to share. I wonder if that was what I was subconsciously thinking of.
Witnessing still seems too passive.
I cannot say that I have witnessed the moment of death. In all cases, I was in the next room when life slipped away. Vera, my now ex-lover's mother (she was my active lover at the time) died shortly after I said good bye and left the room. My AIDS buddy died when I left the room out of fatigue and a need to get away. I had gone into the bathroom. My mother died seconds after I left the room to tell her doctor "no code".
As I said to ScaScot, my grandmother asked me to assist her death, long before it happened, long before she would need assistance. I wasn't able to. She died miles away from me, in a nursing home, with none of her family near her.
Women seem to be the ones to witness death as it happens, in our popular culture. nurses are mostly female, and they are often the ones to be there when someone dies.
The only exception seems to be male clergy, giving last rites (final unction, I think it's called now).
In Mists of Avalon, Viviane eases an old woman into death. In Carpe Jugulum, Granny Weatherwax helps deliver the child of a woman who'd been kicked by a cow, and talks to Death about who will die as a result.
Men have co-opted a traditional woman's role, that of midwife. Doctors, again mostly male, now are the preferred birth attendants. And if they are not, the medical profession is male dominated, and your female doctor probably has a male as her boss.
Men attend death; We think of Dr. Kevorkian, the angel of death, instead of the nurse who might possibly be the one who added just a bit too much morphine to the IV drip.
Again, we think of male clergy, providing absolution.
Yes, this post isn't very cohesive or well thought out. Mostly it's just to list some of my perceptions of how death and dieing are handled in our culture.
Do you want to die alone? I like to think that if my son were to die before me, I'd want to be there with him, because I was there when he was born. But I'm not sure I want him there when I die, I am not sure I want him to deal with the trauma. But it would be nice to have someone to see me off.
How about you?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2007-08-18 02:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-18 05:09 am (UTC)The only death that I was intimately involved in was the death of our baby. We brought him home after we had him taken off of the ventilator. After a couple of days he died in both of our arms. My grandmother died when I was in Germany, my dad when I was on my way to work, half a continent away.
Something about your post causes me to think that men, in general, have to much of an adversarial role with death for them to witness, or to help in the passing. Final Unction, if I am not mistaken isn't something to ease death but sort of a final healing rite. I am going to google it right now but that is my recollection.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-18 05:22 am (UTC)I think final unction helps to ease death by healing. I don't think it has to be either/or, but both/and.
Did that make sense?
no subject
Date: 2007-08-18 05:26 am (UTC)Statistically speaking, most convicted murderers are male.
*If I recall, it was death by non-natural means. I could be way wrong, and too damn tired to Google to find out.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-18 06:54 am (UTC){of the cuff thought while channel surfing) Maureen Ohara was so freaking hot.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-18 01:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-18 07:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-20 11:32 am (UTC)Better for us all if the moon is full
Naked in the rites to show our freedom
Free is the love that we offer too
Ours is the ecstasy of being
Walking in the beauty of the great green Earth
Ours is the touching of the mystery
Ours the experience of death and birth
Ours is the liberating voice of Nature
Knowing that there isn't any more than this
Ours the rituals of love and pleasure
Ours the delivery of the five fold kiss
Does that speak from a feminine perspective? Does it help to know that it was written by a male?
To me, it speaks from both, to both - Just as the feminine and masculine are co-creaters of life, they are co-participants in death.
As for me, I'm not afraid of death. I just don't want to be there when it happens.